Fuzzy Phonebanking: DNC Caller Stumping for Hillary?

Cross-posted at DailyKos.

I had a phone call last night from Telefund. The caller said she was calling on behalf of the DNC to raise money for a DNC campaign (Caller ID says Telefund Inc. 805-897-1183). Telefund also happens to fundraise for the Clinton campaign.

First of all, they've been calling 4-6 times per day for several days, and I didn't answer because it looked like spam calls. When I finally answered tonight (they were very persistent), I was ready to hear them out when she said that they were calling about a DNC campaign. That is, right up until she mentioned current negative campaigning in the primary, and then the call turned into nothing more than a debate of the possible nomination of Hillary Clinton.

Follow me after the jump to hear about my debate about Clinton with a DNC fundraiser...

Disclaimer: First, this call was not recorded or transcribed -- my diary will be as good as my memory (take that for what it's worth). Second, some of the arguments that this DNC caller made are legitimate arguments that the DNC should be making. Some I think are in the gray area. By the end of the call, I believe this DNC caller was stumping for Hillary a little too much, even using (what I consider to be) misleading Clinton talking points.

The caller did not get far into her pitch before I stopped her. I could not help myself. She was calling to ask for my financial support of a DNC campaign to stop McCain from winning in November and to counter the negative campaigning. I immediately interjected with, "The negative campaigning is coming from Hillary!" (I know, I know, the republicans are attacking Obama, but this was a visceral reaction from months of Hillary making the Republican attacks for them.)

I told the caller that I would not give any more money to the DNC as long as Clinton remains in the race. I do not want my money to support a candidate who has divided this party, especially one who has divided the party along racial lines.

She told me that she understood how I felt but that we should support the nominee no matter who it is (ok, I can buy that, she is representing the DNC, and that's exactly what she should say in that role). I told her that she needed to enter into her little database that I will not vote for Hillary Clinton if she steals the nomination from Obama.

Now, her job is to raise funds for the DNC, and my objection to donating is an objection to Hillary Clinton. Perhaps the resulting debate and her defense of Hillary was only her way of trying to overcome my objection, but I don't think so. Once I said that I could not support Hillary Clinton, the DNC fundraiser forgot all about her fundraising campaign. In fact, I don't think she ever mentioned it again.

First, she told me that she could tell how smart I am. In fact, throughout the call, she began nearly every rebuttal with this obviously well practiced line --  as meaningful as, "I can tell you really appreciate fine cars," from a car salesman.

She pointed out that it is more important to keep McCain from winning (ok, that's a legitimate argument for the DNC to make, I'm not sure I agree, but I don't object to the argument). I told her that many of us see the Clintons now as not significantly different than the Republicans. Bill shoved NAFTA down our throats (sending our jobs overseas) and pushed through the repeal of Glass-Steagall (helping create the current real estate and credit crisis). The Clintons are bought and paid for by special interests, just like the current slate of Republican politicians.

She told me again how smart I am (heh), and then she reminded me of the good things that Bill Clinton did as president (ok, I'm feeling like she's pushing the Clintons a little too hard at this point, but I think this is gray area, I'm still sort of ok with it). She said Bill balanced the budget and resided over a great economic expansion. I conceded that the balanced budget was great but reminded her that it was pure dumb luck that he presided over the Internet boom. Rather than take measures to make the economic prosperity last, he pushed through NAFTA, the repeal of Glass-Steagall (I know, I'm harping, but these are serious sticking points with me), and presided over other economic policy decisions (e.g., Greenspan, deregulation) that were good for the wealthy and bad for the middle class.

She tried another tact. She asked me if I thought Clinton would be better than McCain on pro-choice issues, women's rights, and other women's issues. Wouldn't it be worth it, she asked, to keep McCain from making judicial appointments? Ok, I'm a pro-life Democrat, but McCain making judicial appointments does scare me more than a little. She might have gotten me to concede there, but she kept talking, and this is where I think she started to cross the line from neutrality to stumping...

She said,

But 12 states have not voted yet, and they could all go to Hillary. What if Hillary wins the last 12 states?

I was so shocked that I very rudely retorted, "Can you count? There are seven states and two territories left!" (hint: 7+2≠12) She remained unflappable and asked,

But what if Hillary does win all of the remaining states?

I told her there is virtually no possibility that Hillary can win all of the remaining states, and even if she did, she would not gain enough delegates to overturn Obama's lead. I pointed out that she won Texas but lost delegates there, she won New Mexico but lost delegates there, and she won Pennsylvania but only gained about ten delegates there.

Unfazed, she turned to superdelegates. She asked,

What if she gets all of the superdelegates for the remaining states?

I told her that was highly unlikely, but regardless, superdelegates should not overturn the will of the voters. The nominee should be the person who wins the most pledged delegates.

I told her that if the first African American to win the most pledged delegates has the nomination stolen from him by superdelegates that I believe the Democratic Party will lose African American voters forever, and Hillary cannot win (no Democrat can win) without the African American vote. Not only are they an essential part of our coalition, but they are an essential part of who this party is supposed to represent.

She told me again that she could see how smart I am but that all superdelegates should vote the way their constituents have voted, and if they did that, Hillary would win, and it would be legitimate. She said,

What about in Massachusetts where the people voted for Hillary, but Kennedy and Kerry support Obama? Shouldn't they go with the voters in their state and vote for Hillary?

At this point in the conversation, I really felt that she had crossed the line from DNC representative to Clinton stumper. However, maybe my call was unique -- I found no similar stories online (I did find complaints about Telefund calling too often and not removing people from their list upon request). Telefund is also under contract to make calls for the Clinton campaign. If their staff is making calls for both the DNC and the Clinton campaign, they will be familiar with the Clinton talking points -- perhaps this was less a concerted effort and more a happenstance.

First, I responded that Clinton and her supporters cannot ask Obama to play by rules that she is unwilling to play by. Clinton is clearly courting not just all superdelegates but also all pledged delegates. I reminded her of Clinton's own words,

We talk a lot about so-called pledged delegates, but every delegate is expected to exercise independent judgment.

I reminded her of the historic and sensitive nature of Obama's electoral wins. He is the first African American to win the presidential nomination of a major party. Superdelegates should (almost) never overturn the will of the voters, but to take the nomination from the first African American nominee would be simply unconscionable. I told her that I will not support a party that does this. People would be marching in the streets if the superdelegates overturn the will of the voters, taking the nomination from the first African American to earn it. And I will be marching too, sign held high, in front of my local DNC office if the nomination is stolen from Obama.

She argued for a couple more minutes regarding the legitimacy of superdelegates and the possibility of Clinton winning. She made it clear that a win by either superdelegates or pledged delegates would be a legitimate win.

Finally, she told me again how smart I am and how glad she is that I am involved, and then she bid me goodnight.

Did this DNC caller cross a line that should not be crossed during a primary by the DNC?

Where is that line, and how fuzzy is it?



Display:


Re: Fuzzy Phonebanking: (none / 0)

Looks like the theme of the day.  

Interesting.  Will the phone call themes seep out to the MSM?


by TomP on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:58:49 PM EST

Eh. (none / 0)

I hate to defend Clinton on anything, but she's not the guilty party here. Telefund is an independent firm under contract with the DNC - and presumably, the Clinton campaign - but this really sounds like some $12/hour hired hand going off script of her own volition. Unless they've built a script to deal with possible party defectors, in which case they have a similar one for Obama if the respondent is an irate Clintonite.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:06:25 PM EST

Re: Eh. (none / 0)

I agree with that.


by Zoey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:07:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eh. (none / 0)

Agreed.  The caller went off script.  Probably a Clinton supporter bored with the job and wanting to engage in some real conversation.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eh. (none / 0)

If I get a call like that I am going to hang up.


by Spanky on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eh. (none / 0)

It might be better to record it, document it, report it.  

Our voice is all that we have when this happens.  We need to start speaking out against this.

Good going Zoey!


by Kiku on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow. (none / 0)

Hillary's candidacy is a lot more historic than Obama's. Obama is another guy. We've had 43 of those. We've had other black candidates do well in the primary. We've never had another woman come even close to what Clinton has done.

If Clinton's the nominee, the majority of American citizens, who have never seen themselves as able to become the leader of the free world, will wake up to new possibilities. With Obama, it's just more of the same. Think what is will say to the majority of the world's population if Clinton wins - it'll be earth shattering.

Obama - not so shattering. Just one more guy. Ho hum. Business as usual.


by Little Otter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:09:36 PM EST

Re: Wow. (none / 0)

Little Otter, how many AA governors, and AA senators do we have actually?  How many AA presidents have we had actually.  How many Clintons have we had in the WH actually?  I agree that it would be great to have a woman president some day, but I want the right woman in that job, and for me Hillary Clinton ain't it.  We have some wonderful women senators out there who one of them will be president someday.


by Spanky on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow. (none / 0)

No woman has come anywhere near as far as Clinton has - and that is a fact. With Clinton in the WH, 53% of American will wake for the firsst time in this nation's history and someone like them in the White House. All around the world, women, who are an infintismally small percentage of the world elected leaders, will wake up to seeing one of their own in the White House!

It's going to be shattering. Obama is just one more guy - yes, he's African American, but he's still a guy. Just like most of the other leaders of the world. There's just nothing new about it.

You want to hear something funny? All those women senators that you're talking about are more qualified than Obama for the job. How sad to be the person supporting the least qualifed candidate for the office. You sound like every other bigot in the world.


by Little Otter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:12:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Naw.... (none / 0)

Voting on gender, huh?  That's ranks up there with voting for Bush because people felt they could sit down and have a beer with him.  

Hillary has some postive points.  Can't you do better than that?

I'll give you an example.  Obama has sound judgement and has been right on the issues time and time again, from Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, talking to leaders, Pakistan, and now the gas tax.

Obama has a calm temperment, soundly missing in Hillary who is too quick to obliterate Iran.

Obama has a vision for the country, and has had from day one.  His vision to unite people is understood by most Americans, as well as by Democrats and Republican's in office.  Hillary is a fighter, and she's going to approach government that way.  

Obama hasn't taken money from PACs and lobbyists.  This leaves him free to address the needs of the American people, rather than the corporations.


by Kiku on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow. (none / 0)

I think it is terribly disrespectful for you to trivialize the accomplishments of minority candidates.

The facts are, Hillary Clinton cannot win unless superdelegates usurp the will of the voters. His lead in pledged delegates is insurmountable, and that is a mathematical certainty.

Do you really believe that Hillary can win in November without the African American vote? And do you believe that she will have those voters? I don't.


by Zoey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow. (none / 0)

I think it's terrible of you to pretend that Obama has accomplishments. He doesn't. He graduated from Harvard Law and proceeded to a fat lot of not much. He went to work for a law firm, and never led on any cases. Never won any precedent setting suits. Never went to court and stopped a fundamental injustice. He was never lead attorney - only assisted. Then he got into the Illinois state senate, and literally did nothing for five years. Nothing. Nada. Zip. And this despite his alleged post-partisan genius. When Illinois was controlled by republicans, he got nothing done. When Dems took over, he was gifted legislation by Emil Jones, and suddenly had a resume. But go ahead - find a piece of legislation that he sponsored that year, that he had carried in the years beforehand. Then he joined the US senate and proceeded to do even less. He's been in 3 years, and two bills he's written have been signed into law - as opposed to Clinton's 19 in 7 years.

No one is diminished by the truth. Maybe you just need to be a bit more realistic about who and what he is.


by Little Otter on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow. (none / 0)

I see you are modelling Hillary by making up the facts.  Brilliant example she sets for the country, and her supporters follow right along.

Here are just some of Obama's legislation:

Education:

   * 1983 Foreign Policy Degree from Columbia,
    * 1991 Law Degree from Harvard, graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, and he served as the President of the Harvard Law Review, one of the most prestigious student positions in the world.

Community Organizer, 1985

He sought to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime and high unemployment

   * Moved the Chicago Housing Authority to remove asbestos in housing
    * Established a job-training center
    * Worked in the streets on voter registration to help elect President Clinton
    * Registered 150,000 people to vote

Civil Rights Lawyer

Miner, Barnhill & Galland: litigated employment discrimination, housing discrimination, and voting rights cases.

   * Protecting voters: seccessfully sued state of Illinois for failing to implement a federal voter-registration law.

   * Successfully defended a whistleblower who lost her job, for a $5 million settlement

Constitutional Law professor/lecturer at the University of Chicago

Illinois State Senate 1996 - 2004

   * Welfare legislation

   * Created the Earned Income Tax Credit program that gave over $100 million in tax cuts for families throughout Illinois over 3 years.

   * Expanded early childhood education

   * Enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

   * He passed a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped. The law was at first very controversial, but due to Obama's skills as a negotiator and bipartisanships, he won the support of the police. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, he won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited Obama for his active engagement with police organizations in enacting death penalty reforms.

   * Pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned most gifts from lobbyists. Worked with U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL), 1988. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.

   * Created a working, affordable health care plan in Illinois, that covers 70,000 kids and 84,000 adults, where all kids qualify for $40 per child. Obama sponsored and passed this legislation, working with Rod R. Blagojevich(IL Gov.) See All Kids http://www.allkids.com/ . It is a model for a workable, affordable national health care.

Honors:

   * Outstanding Legislator Award
    * Campaign for Better Health Care and Illinois Primary Health Care Association, 1998
    * Best Freshman Legislator Award
    * Independent Voters of Illinois, 1997
    * Monarch Award for Outstanding Public Service, 1994
    * "40 Under 40" Award, Crain's Chicago Business, 1993.
    * Grammy Award in 2006 for Best Spoken Word Recording for the audio version of his book, Dreams from My Father.

US Senate, 2004 - present

He is a member of several Senate Committees:

   * Committee on Foreign Relations, that plays a vital role in shaping US policy around the world.
    * Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee that addresses, among other things, issues of immigration and our borders.
    * Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions: oversees our nation's health care, schools, employment, and retirement programs
    * Committee on Veterans' Affairs: focused on providing our brave veterans with the care and services they deserve.
    * 2005-2006: Environment and Public Works Committee, which safeguards our environment and provides funding for our highways

The Numbers

Obama sponsored 152 bills and resolutions brought before the 109th Congress in 2005 and 2006, and cosponsored another 427.

Legislation Passed in US Senate

   * Lugar-Obama Act to decrease nuclear and conventional weapons proliferation around the world.

   * Coburn-Obama Transparency Act transparency in federal spending, found at httP://www.usaspending.gov

   * Cosponsored the Healthy Kids Act of 2007 and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2007 to ensure that more American children have affordable health care coverage.

   * Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.

   * As a member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, Obama passed legislation to improve care and slash red tape for our wounded warriors recovering at places like Walter Reed. He passed laws to help homeless veterans and offered an innovative solution to prevent at-risk veterans from falling into homelessness. Obama passed legislation to stop a VA review of closed PTSD cases that could have led to a reduction in veterans' benefits. He passed an amendment to ensure that all service members returning from Iraq are properly screened for traumatic brain injuries

   * Congo: Obama and Leahy successfully passed an amendment to provide $13 million in assistance to the DRC for military reform and election assistance. The bill also provided the the US policy is to oppose and fight against the rape and killings of women that is a particular horror there. Obama has recently sent a letter to Sec. Rice demanding a report of their efforts there.

   * Darfur: He provided funding.

   * Introduced Patriot Employer Act, August 2007, to reward companies for keeping jobs in the US

   * As a member of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committee, Obama helped pass legislation in the recent improvements to the Higher Education Act to increase the maximum Pell Grant award to $5,10.

   * Obama passed legislation with Senator Jim Talent (R-MO) to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps.

   * Obama sponsored an amendment that became law providing $40 million for commercialization of a combined flexible fuel vehicle/hybrid car within five years.

   * Congressional ethics legislation, called the Gold Standard of ethics reform, passed by Obama and Feingold that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists' bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips. The Washington Post wrote in an editorial, "The final package is the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet."

   * Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.


by Kiku on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Looks to me like (none / 0)

you provoked the caller and the caller was doing what they she/he was trained to do, convince you otherwise.
by linc on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:31:42 PM EST

No (none / 0)

Her job is to raise money for the DNC, not shove propaganda from one campaign down throats.


by Bee on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks to me like (none / 0)

Thank you, first of all, for beginning the discussion that I wanted to have. Part of me thinks that she was just trying to ensure that I would see either candidate as a legitimate nominee (after all, she works for the party, and the party wants to win no matter who the nominee is). But I felt like some of what she said was misleading and that she was pumping Clinton a little too much.

Where do should the DNC draw the line? Is it ok to use talking points from both campaigns? Should the DNC be prepared to convince both supporters from both campaigns to support the other candidate? Maybe Telefund is doing the exact same thing when they get someone who opposes Obama on the phone?


by Zoey on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:41:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looks to me like (none / 0)

I think the DNC should draw the line by not allowing any caller to mention either candidate.

She could have easily talked about how hard the DNC is working to keep the party together by following the rules.  

She could have simply thanked you for your time, and said that she hoped things worked out so that the party would still have your support.

If she had been for Obama, the discussion would have been completely different.

It may not have been planned, it may not be organized, but, I read it as definitely pushing Hillary.


by Kiku on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:08:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuzzy Phonebanking: DNC (none / 0)

She pointed out that it is more important to keep McCain from winning (ok, that's a legitimate argument for the DNC to make, I'm not sure I agree, but I don't object to the argument).

Interesting. So you're cool with a McCain presidency? Well, he's pro-life, just like you, so maybe that will work out fine for you. Who cares about silly things like women's issues, anyway?


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:01:39 PM EST

Re: Fuzzy Phonebanking: DNC (none / 0)

This is a really difficult position.  If Hillary wins with the supers, (not likely to happen), they will be tossing out the voice of the people.

Obama supporters then have to make a choice: to support a party that disenfranchises the voters, and undermines the principles of democracy,

or

to pick a candidate who is against RvW.

As an Obama supporter, I am terrified of having to make such a choice.

I will support Hillary is she wins by the people's choice, and I will campaign for her like I am for Obama.  

But if not, then it's an issue of principles.  Democracy vs personal freedom.  


by Kiku on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuzzy Phonebanking: DNC (none / 0)

I actually agree that Hillary shouldn't be given the nomination if she's behind in both the popular vote and pledged delegates. I just wanted to express my profound disdain for pro-lifers in general.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:25:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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