Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is

Cross-posted at DailyKos.

Now that the pundits have called the nomination for Obama and some Clinton supporters are calling for Hillary to withdraw, unity diaries are popping up like crazy paired with response diaries asking us not to capitulate.

Clinton supporters are demanding that Obama supporters apologize. Obama supporters are demanding Clinton supporters concede. Supporters on both sides are asking for unity and reconciliation. Almost everyone is blaming the other side for the divisions.

Democrats, listen up. Our tent is not as big as we pretend it is. We live in pockets and bubbles, and we are just as intolerant as our opponents. We are the proverbial frog in the well. If we want real healing and not just a band aid, then we need to take a long hard look at ourselves.

I want to share with you some feedback I've received from friends and family who plan to vote for Obama in November. As you read these, think long and hard about how Clinton supporters are feeling right now. See this primary season from their perspective. Try to understand why Clinton supporters might be feeling as offended by our side as we've felt by their side.

I have a progressive friend who goes to all of the peace protests and has environmental sit-ins and all the "far left" kind of stuff, but one of his pet issues is illegal immigration (he believes massive immigration is harmful to the environment). He was furious about the "bitter" comment. He said that it was a direct attack on people who want to fix the immigration problem. These are his words:

If he was just saying we were angry it would be one thing -- and it would be true. That's not what he was saying. Obama was showing his contempt for people who are opposed to free trade and of course said that those who want to reform immigration are irrational and racist. Of course he slammed gun owners too.

He can't get off the hook on this one. I'm actually sick and tired of hearing him bash immigration reformists. He did it in that Phoenix rally, and I have heard him do it many other times. In my mind he said it one too many times.

Let's face it, Obama was telling "us" that we are just a bunch of small minded people from little cities. Harumph to that because I'm not from little cities and I don't enjoy hearing him put me down.

Oh, and another thing -- Obama and Clinton are both cowards. Neither of them are willing to visit Hazleton. They are both showing that they are incapable of leading this country. McCain hasn't visited Hazleton either and I doubt he will, but of course he isn't competing there in a primary.

Obama really screwed up this time. The Wright thing probably should have done him in, but this will at least in PA. If Hillary was credible she could kick his ass over this one, but of course all we can say is she was smart enough not to be so elitist.

If the Democrats were smart (and of course they aren't) they would ditch both of these losers for somebody that could beat McCain.

This guy is a lifelong Democrat and an Obama supporter. Ok, so he had a short hiatus in the Green Party, but he's back in the Democratic Party, and he's here to stay. He even supports Obama enough to actually volunteer for the campaign. But the "bitter" comments pissed him off. Royally. I don't see what he saw, but his feelings are legitimate.

This is what one of my relatives said about Obama's bitter comments and Reverend Wright:

Obama said religion is a crutch, that god isn't real, just a crutch for people to cling to. He said religion is like a rag doll or a blanket.

He is not a religious man. How could he say what he said if he didn't feel some of that himself. Some of the people he was talking about are very devout, and he didn't consider any value to that.

His church does not practice the same Christianity as most churches in America. Definitely not white churches.

She didn't see that as racist. She sees Reverend Wright as the one who is racist. Again, I don't see what she sees, and I disagree with her whole heartedly, but her feelings are legitimate.

I talked to a couple of young girls at the local university a couple of months ago, and they were supporting Clinton because they want to see a woman in the white house. They believe that Clinton has the most experience and that this political season was nothing more than the men pushing out a more qualified woman. They see an upstart young man with little experience trumping an older, more experienced woman, and they feel the personal sting of a woman defending one of her own. Again, I don't see what they see -- I believe Obama is the better candidate, but their feelings are legitimate.

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch with a younger couple just starting out. My twenty five year old friend has never voted before and is planning to vote for Obama in November. She did not vote in the primary. Her boyfriend recently finished a stint in the military and grew up in a small, poverty-stricken town. He is an hourly manager for a large retail change and had just come from taking a psychological profiling test, which his companies gives to employees looking to move into salaried management.

There was a question on his exam that asked about "the ivory tower way of thinking," and he didn't know what "ivory tower" meant. I explained it to him, and the conversation immediately turned to Obama. Something clicked with the half dozen or so people at the table: Elitism, Obama. No one prompted it, the transition in conversation happened automatically, naturally.

How many phrases are there to describe "the liberal elite"? California liberals. Elite liberal media. Affluent liberals. Latte liberals. Berkleyites (I'm not even sure how to spell that one). Damn hippies. Old hippy. Socialist. Commie. Bleeding heart. Tax'n'spend liberal. Do-gooder.

Heck, a lot of people think Edwards lost because he was reduced to nothing more than a hair joke. One $400 hair cut, and he was a populist no more.

In some parts of the country, liberal is its own pejorative. Imagine how thrilled Democrats in Idaho must have been to find out this year that other Democrats do exist in their state. I saw one person on the MyBO site (i.e., an Obama supporter) say something to the effect of, "I thought 'Democrat in Idaho' was a mythical creature."

Even given all of this, even given our own resentment of the pejorative label of the word liberal, most of us have an image in our mind of "the enlightened liberal". You know what I'm talking about. The liberal who knows what's good for you. The liberal who wants to save you from yourself. The liberal who wants to take what you've earned and spread it around for everybody to share. Yeah, that (mythical) person.

If you've read this far, how are you feeling right about now? Are you feeling resentful? A little picked on?

Hillary supporters have been called racist, elitist, old timers, deluded, establishment, old, uneducated, poor, uninformed, low info, ignorant... oh the list goes on. They see Obama supporters (Kossacks) looking down their noses at them. Whether you do it or not, whether you mean to or not, that's how they feel. As Keith Olberman would say, true or not, they see it.

We saw an opportunity to change the face of American politics. They saw an opportunity to finally put someone in office who would really fight for us. We're not that different. We want a fighter, too. They want a change agent, too. We want the same policies (mostly). We just saw different ways of reaching the same goals.

We saw many of the Clinton attacks on our candidate as racist or race baiting. We saw many of the Clinton attacks as crossing a line that ought not be crossed by a fellow Democrat. But just like we didn't see what they saw, they didn't see what we saw. Should it have been clear to them? Sometimes I think it should have been -- but I also know that what we didn't see, they thought should have been clear to us.

Our fellow Democrats who support Clinton didn't see what we saw. They saw a person who was just fighting for all of us, someone who was willing to do what it takes to get ordinary people back at the top of the agenda in Washington, DC. That's not what I saw in Hillary, but their perspective is not less legitimate than our perspective. We saw stubbornness, they saw strength.

We should agree to disagree on Hillary's tactics. In short, we should let it go -- both sides. I think wmtriallawyer is also correct that we should not swing the pendulum too far in the other direction -- being gracious does not mean we should capitulate. We do not have to bow to demands for monetary payoffs, veep considerations, and the like. We also should not stand idly by while Clinton makes her final (and maybe even most desperate) attacks on Obama. We should recognize the difference between campaigning against Clinton and attacking Clinton supporters.

I don't think that Hillary's supporters are racist. I don't think that many of them are the low info voters that the media makes them out to be. I think they've been around the political system, and they have given up on what they see as a softer approach. They're cynical, and they want a fighter, not a negotiator. Instead of beating them down and kicking them out of our tent (thus making them more cynical), let's open our arms and bring them into our tent.

Are all Clinton supporters good or good for the Democratic Party? Of course not. But not all Obama supporters are good or good for the Democratic Party either.

Obama supporters, don't let some bad Clinton apples turn you against all Clinton supporters. And Clinton supporters, don't let some bad Obama apples turn you against all Obama supporters. Most of us are good people who the same shared goals. And don't forget that even good Democrats might say some bad things in the heat of the primary (I know I've been guilty).

We know that the divisions are deep. Feelings have hardened. But we also have more in common than we have differences. Let us focus on our common goals and dreams for our country and the world. Let's focus on what our country will lose if John McCain becomes our president.

Obama supporters, if we cannot forgive the Clintons for the wrongs we perceive from them, let's try to set the Clintons aside for now. Focus on the race at hand -- the general election. Focus on our fellow democrats who share our dreams, our goals, our wishes for the future of our country and the world.

Have empathy. Remember how we would be feeling if Obama, the person we believe is the last best chance at getting this country back on track, had lost the nomination. That's exactly how many Clinton supporters are feeling right now. And for every grievance we feel, there is a grievance felt by Clinton supporters. True or not, we feel it. True or not, they feel it.

Obama supporters, I would like to ask you to post a positive comment today -- here or somewhere else, it doesn't matter -- post a comment that either says one nice thing about Clinton's supporters (do not just say that they're tenacious) or describes one goal that both sides have in common (don't just say defeating McCain). Be substantive. We truly are all on the same team.

Clinton supporters, I hope you'll keep an open mind about us, too. We'd really like to hear from you. I do hope that the divisions between us can be over, if not today, soon. Tell us what you believe it will take to heal the divides. I don't know how well your requests will be received, but I think it's time for us to start the discussion.



Display:


Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 3)

This is an insightful diary.  It is hard, hard work to see things as the other person sees them.  Liberals are supposed to be the open-minded ones, but... how often we fall short of that ideal.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:21:37 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

The need to defeat McCain is paramount.

I supported Edwards and then was neutral (still am).  I really see HillObama as about the same on issues, both centrists, and wonder why things became so mean.  Then I remember my experiences when I was a known Edwards diarist.  Some people really hated me and were so abusive.  Most were Obama supporters, but I was not insulted by most Obama supporters.  That is, a few jerks do not represent a whole group.  I'm sure Clinton supporters would have insuilted me more also, had there been more of them on Dkos.

Identity became paramount for many Obama and Clinton supporters.  If that happens in the general election, I fear that McCain will win.

Good diary.

I'm tired of blogs.  Real life is better.


by TomP on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:21:39 PM EST

Identity politics is an asset and a liability (2.00 / 2)

McCain will not win. Stop worrying.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Identity politics is an asset and a liability (2.00 / 1)

Complacency is the enemy.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:13:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

I like this idea. I hope others Rec this as well. As for my comment...

We probably won't have a female nominee this cycle. We came close, but the odds are now firmly against it. I completely understand the desire of many Clinton supporters, both male and female, to see a woman in the White House. I hope everyone realizes that this is a dream shared by the vast majority of Democrats. So I want to thank Clinton supporters for working as hard as they have to help give this country its first female leader. You have all laid the groundwork and broken the barriers that will ensure the next female presidential candidate faces fewer disadvantages in pursuit of the presidency. The first woman president will surely thank you all.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:23:26 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

I completely agree that Hillary's candidacy has paved the way for more women to be elected to our highest offices. One of the benefits of her candidacy that I think is often overlooked is just the fact that she's forcing people to get used to the idea. You know, most of the traits that our society considers "good" for a politician or a top business manager are masculine traits, but many feminine traits are just as beneficial (and sometimes more so). I thin the more our society sees women, up close and personal, the more our society will get used to seeing women in these roles and the easier it will be for other women to attain these roles.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed. First, it's cognitive dissonance. (2.00 / 1)

In her autobiography she says the first interview as first lady that ran in a major paper was before the inaugural ball and it was a short fluff piece that featured a photo of her in her gown.

It caused an uproar in the media that lasted days. She says this experience was one of the first time she realized women were in a "double bind."


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

I'm sorry but I respectfully don't agree. This hasn't paved the way for women. I remember the bitch comments and wheither or not Sen. Clinton was gay. And I will for a long time.

This is nice spin. But I don't kid myself. This is spin. I do believe that gender played a roll in chosing a less experienced male over a more qualified female.

In the years to come this will be just a blip as far as women in higher office were concerned. I was optimistic but after this primary I know just how sexist even people in the Democratic party can be. Sorry. It makes me sad. I'm old enough to remember before the bras were burned and women roared.

I won't spin what I don't believe, not when it comes to the issues of women.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

Civil rights pioneers remember beatings, lynchings, fire hoses, and worse, but the trails they blazed made it possible for those who came after them to live better lives.

Senator Clinton has endured some misogyny, sure, but she has also blazed a trail for other women. Make no mistake, her candidacy has helped women.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

Well no it actually hasn't.

There are NO women on the horizen who are even near to getting where Hillary is.

There have been some who talk about the female govenor from kansas ect. but if none of those women are in a position to even be considered.

And lets face it the sexist theme has been given a big pass and so will be much much worse for the next female to run. (when ever that may be)


by J Rae on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:54:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

hey ya jrae

hey ya Zoey,

Zoey, you seem to be very optimistic about the future of women in politics. I wonder if you have ever written a diary about women in high level politics? I'll go look but if you haven't, I sure would read it if you did.

Might be a good thing to read.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

Obama's worst moment of this campaign was his clinging to guns and religion line.  I'm pretty sure I know what he was trying to say -  Economic issues from both parties have failed middle America so they vote, or are more likely to vote, on issues such as religion, 2nd amendment, immigration, etc.  The problem is that Obama's quote over-generalized a class of people and no one, I mean no one, likes to be over-simplified like that.  Out of touch? - a little.  Elitist? - don't even start with that crap.  But it did give Clinton the ammunition to attack Obama on cultural issues.      


by reggie23 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:30:08 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, I still can't believe he said that. Let's just hope the worst of his gaffes are behind him.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

I think he meant it as I explain it to people--when your ship has sunk, you cling to your life preserver.  That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your life preserver or anything shallow about clinging to it, it just means that's all you've got/got control over.

As far a media-saviness is concerned, though, it was a big mistake.


by leftneck on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

Exactly


by reggie23 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

According to Donna Brazile, the party has the ultimate desire to redefine itself with the hope that a massive blue-collar, the white-working class deflection takes place. It saddens me quite frankly. I believe historians will side with my point of view which is that the Obama camp owns the race baiting tag. I also believe that the party is forever changed. Positively or negatively, is yet to be determined.


by Liberty on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:40:52 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

If that is, in fact, the case, you wouldn't need much of a tent at all. Unless, of course, you include the space needed by all the big egos involved. Donna Brazile herself might find Madison Square Garden a bit confining...


by Lacy Davenport on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:54:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Also - get rid of the seniors (none / 0)

I get that her comment was a slip, that she tried to backtrack. But that's just it - it slipped out. It's what she's been thinking.

Now, I can certainly understand her being sick of we have to keep the white bubbas in our tent, her being a black woman. Especially if you have strong suspicions your candidate is losing white bubbas because white bubbas are racist. But that's not why he's losing the working class.

But Brazille's slip was that the new party "younger" "urban" and "suburban." That burned, and I'm not even 40 yet!


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thats is not what she said (none / 0)

and yours is a racist comment.  sadly, i don't think you realize that it is.  


by ab03 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not at all racist (2.00 / 2)

sadly, I don't think you can see that.

To have compassion for the experiences of people who face racial discrimination is not racist. I have a lot of compassion and empathy for Brazile in that respect.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:22:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is the elitism (none / 0)

"sadly, I don't think you can see that". I need to write these down.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me explain (2.00 / 2)

I am a woman. If Hillary were ahead in pledged delegates and pop vote, but there was talk of Obama being more electable because white bubbas were not ready for a woman president, well I would say to hell with them then! Why do we need these bigots in our party anyway?

You dig?


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How dare you call me racist (2.00 / 1)

you didn't even read my comment.

This is the elitism thing - presuming people are racist, and saying we "can't see" what you see. Ugh!


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also - get rid of the seniors (2.00 / 0)

Don't forget Hispanics.

Actually, the Obama coalition seems to consist of African Americans, Harvard Grads and the under 30 set.

It doesn't sound like a winning team to me but what do I know?  I'm just an invisible white woman whose vote the party surely doesn't want or need.


by bellarose on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:15:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also - get rid of the seniors (none / 0)

This probably isn't the response you want to see, but one of my favorite videos of this primary season is White Haired Women for Obama. Of course, I'm biased because I'm from Tennessee (that's where they're from), and one of them reminds me of my grandmother. I just love these ladies.



by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Donna Brazille may get her wish. (none / 0)

Some of us feel, rightly or wrongly, that the big tent party has become a gated community, and we are no longer wanted or welcome. The party elders underestimate the conservative Democrats, those who vote D on economic issues but are closer to Republicans on cultural issues, at their own risk. Be careful what you ask for Donna.


by georgiapeach on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:59:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

Beautiful.  I won't mess it up by saying anything more.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:43:50 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

However, I peeked at the cross post over at the other site.  Plenty of "fuck'em, she's a monster" posts there.  Sigh.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:48:17 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

Wow, it's true. I just checked.
I've always though the anti-DKos sentiments at MyDD were overblown - but maybe they are somewhat justified afterall.

I still wish to convince people that DKos offers a lot of great commentary, links and information. I can browse DKos for a week straight without coming across anything as offensive as what I just saw in this cross-posted diary.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What kos says on front page shapes the rest (none / 0)

and that's why it festers and thrives there. I wish they'd update the design of this site because the tone set by Jerome and Todd is mature and responsible.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What kos says on front page shapes the rest (2.00 / 1)

I think they both cross the line.

Kos used to be irreverent and witty with his pro-Obama slant. Over the last couple months he just became mean and vengeful. Jerome, on the other hand, sticks to Clinton talking points so firmly it appears he is a fixture of their campaign. (I don't mean to imply he is on a payroll, I just think he writes as if he is)


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What kos says on front page shapes the rest (none / 0)

Actually it seems to me that Jerome manages to write positive supportive posts about Clinton without putting down Obama.

Markos seems to have missed that part of the maturing process.


by J Rae on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:00:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

The key to navigating dKos this primary season is to stay out of candidate diaries. Steer clear of them, and I do okay, even as a Clinton supporter.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, that surprised me and really made me sad. I really thought that the MyDD people would tear me apart while the DailyKos people gave me kudos. I'm sorry that I misjudged you all!


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, awesome diary. Best unity one yet! (2.00 / 2)


by lombard on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:57:53 PM EST

I'm a not cynical Clinton supporter (2.00 / 1)

good effort, but toward the end you sort of blew it. It's not that I've been around and given up.

Hillary fires me up. She kicks ass, she has a lot of energy. She is a blast of fresh air, she puts herself on the line, she puts ideas out there (what you all call the gas tax "pander" allowed her to talk about investigating OPEC AND also talk about developing renewable energy. In short - it allowed her to advance an issue-based idea into the media din of pastors and gun-clinging. Precisely because the gas tax was criticized, the issue got a lot of free media coverage.)

Obama is a nice person, but kind of puts me to sleep. He reminds me of my own over-cautious tendencies. And the Bill Ayers thing matters - it bothers me. It reminds me of the moral relativism of the 1970s. His background makes for a beautiful American story. But he also troubles me in that we have an instant-gratification ethos in our culture. I hope he delivers and develops into a full, package candidate. He's got work to do.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:07:08 PM EST

Re: I'm a not cynical Clinton supporter (2.00 / 1)

I'm actually glad that you posted your rebuttal. I actually haven't gotten the impression that Hillary supporters were really fired up for her -- more that they were tired of politicians not fighting for them and thought she might finally be that fighter. This certainly gives me a different perspective. In your experience, is how most Clinton supporters feel?


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:13:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was for Obama till mid-January (2.00 / 1)

her debate performances were so solid. (Also, his health care stances troubled me.) Then I read her autobiography. And frankly, watching her campaign while facing so much unfair criticism and just not wavering in the face of it all has affected my life personally. It's given me more of a "no whining" reminder when things aren't in my favor. You heard me right - I do not think she has whined this campaign. I've been blown away - waiting, expecting her to whine, wondering when it would start.

I am unusual in that I came to her only in January. Many supporters (and surprisingly, a lot of straight men in this group) knew more about her "Women's Rights are Human Rights" speech in China, her speeches in Indonesia, stuff from the 1990s and have been waiting for her to run and be their president for some time. And what's blown me away is people from Europe in Canada on our email lists saying "how are we going to help Hillary win?" They've been following her and admiring her for years.

Finally - she's not just a female candidate. Condi Rice could be a female candidate. Hillary is a well-rounded, star-quality candidate, who is credible with military (her endorsements of 50 decorated military personnel were emphatically worded) but she also brings to the table the unique compassion that a woman brings - her talk about populations knowing what it's like to be "invisible" or "speaking the language of silence". I see no evidence Thatcher or Meier stood up for women's issues the way Hillary has and continues to do.

So the first woman president, I fear, will be a Republican.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm a not cynical Clinton supporter (2.00 / 2)

I know that's how I feel/felt. She inspires me, even though she's not the progressive I wish she was. I started out supporting her because of her healthcare plan and because I thought she was more electable than Edwards. But I ended up feeling an enormous amount of affection and appreciation for her as a person. Believe it or not, Hillary made me feel very hopeful.

Our support is just as passionate as that of any Obama supporter, and many of us are still fiercely loyal to her. Look around you -- do you see the devotion? She inspired that. She's more than just a fighter to a lot of us.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:28:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm a not cynical Clinton supporter (2.00 / 0)

I'd like to see Clinton continue on...To hell with the pundits, to hell with the SD's... Keep going until the votes are counted in MI and FL :D


by soyousay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm a not cynical Clinton supporter (none / 0)

See--I see just the opposite. I see Hillary as the lying,lacking in ethics radical from her college days trying to pretended now that she is any of a thousand different things other things--depending what she needs to be for that day. But all in all she is just devisive--even a good portion of Democrats don't like her not to say anything of the galvanizing effect she has on  the Republican vote in this country

Where as to me Obama seems geniune and inspires me to believe the country can come together with a common agenda and attempt to really solve some of our problems.


by GeeMan on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama isn't the problem (none / 0)

But the country sees so many nasty and dismissive Obama supporters like you and they wonder about the ability of Obama to be a unifier when he has attracted so many people who seem only to want to shut down others.  There is an old saying "Show me who your friends are and that will tell me who you are."

I've read a number of your remarks and they reek with the odor of superiority, hostility, and crass indifference to the feelings of others.  You (and those like you) are terrible ambassadors for Obama and bear a great deal of responsibility for turning people against him these last three months.  If you really wanted to help your candidate, shutting your mouth would be the most effective technique.


by lombard on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very well said. Highly recommended. (2.00 / 3)

And I'd like to point out that I've been impressed with a lot of people around here. Most of the Obama supporters have been very cool about things, and there are some Clinton supporters who finally accepted the inevitable and seem ready to unite for the good of the party (and the country). It was sooner than I expected. We still have a long way to go, but I think people will come around.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:18:29 PM EST

I'm volunteering for her still (2.00 / 1)

because I want to build the case for her to be offered veep. It bothers me that people write her off, hers is an historic campaign, and frankly, she sets a great example of following through and finishing what she starts.

And no, her candidacy does not hurt Obama nor does it hurt the party. The hand-wringing on the Dem side makes me crazy! Would you ever see Repubs fret like this? Oy!


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm volunteering for her still (2.00 / 1)

More than likely they'll offer the vp spot to Sen. John Edwards. I could be wrong but I'm thinking that's the case.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm volunteering for her still (none / 0)

There is also a lot of talk about Edwards for AG.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:45:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very well said. Highly recommended. (2.00 / 2)

You've been a class act through a hotly contested race, sricki.

I like your sig line.

I'm also a member of a forgotten demographic - a rural, beer drinking, truck driving farmer for Obama.

My hope is that once we have a definite nominee all of us can put all this demographic stuff aside and simply be Democrats.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

Here's my positive comment; you put a lot of thought into your diary and are trying to see things from different sides.
---------------------------------------- ------

Even given all of this, even given our own resentment of the pejorative label of the word liberal, most of us have an image in our mind of "the enlightened liberal". You know what I'm talking about. The liberal who knows what's good for you. The liberal who wants to save you from yourself. The liberal who wants to take what you've earned and spread it around for everybody to share. Yeah, that (mythical) person.

If you've read this far, how are you feeling right about now? Are you feeling resentful? A little picked on?


Here's where you lose me... "the enlighten liberal" doesn't describe me. That being said, I definitely don't fit into the "corporate" Republican party either. Because I hold some populist viewpoints when it comes to the economy, I prefer the Democratic party (not so much recently.) For the most part, the Democratic party is the lesser of two evils for the middle class. I'm with you when it comes to the "big tent" analogy. It doesn't ring true. That's too bad, the unity rhetoric from the Democratic candidates is just politics as usual IMO.

You ask "how I'm feeling" right now...My personal honest assessment; Not resentful, not picked on, just a disappointed realist that sees politics as usual. IMO, we all fall into the category of over zealous bloggers who are being influenced and manipulated by over paid political pundits.


by soyousay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:18:41 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

I think there are very, very few people who fall into the category "enlightened liberal." I included that because I wanted Obama supporters to remember what it feels like to feel picked on -- misunderstood. But I understand what you're saying.

And I totally agree about us being influenced and manipulated by overpaid pundits. I think that's the worst thing about this primary season, and I think those overpaid pundits exacerbated the divide between Obama and Clinton supporters.

Thanks for your comment. This is the kind of discussion that I think we need to have.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm a reformed "enlightened liberal" (2.00 / 1)

Not sure when the transition was. We need a new vocab to describe this anti-elitism sentiment.

Anti-elitism is salary-neutral.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A mostly excellent diary (2.00 / 1)

This is one of the most thoughtful pieces I've read on the blogs in a long time. I think you miss it at the end (which I explain above - Hillary supporters are not cynical or just worn out on politics) but I explained that. Good effort.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:31:28 PM EST

Your "ivory tower" anecdote is priceless (2.00 / 1)

Would love to hear how that unfolded. I'm trying to wrap my head around how to explain the elitism thing to family and friends. Not to be elitist about my anti-elitism but...they just don't get it!


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:34:23 PM EST

Re: Your "ivory tower" anecdote (2.00 / 1)

The elitism thing is weird. On one hand, the Democratic Party is considered the party of ordinary people, and the Republican Party is considered the party of the rich white people. At the same time, there is a perception that the Democratic Party is run by liberal elitists who want to save people from themselves and think they know what's good for everyone. I think the only way to get past the elitism perception is to show people that the Democratic Party is a grassroots party, which it is quickly becoming.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well - your diary makes the case (none / 0)

I think that's what you're trying to say in it. That while we THINK we're the party of the average people, we're becoming a party of this niche, narrow academic set plus AAs.

This cycle, being a Hillary supporter, it is more glaring - I really see this "elite" thing that the Repubs were talking about before. I thought they were nuts. But no, it's glaring and I need to find the words to capture it before it escapes me.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well - your diary makes the case (2.00 / 1)

No, I don't agree with this at all.  

The Republicans are basic corporate aids who protect corporate interests.  They are backed by right-wing Christian groups, who are now leaving because they don't agree with the policies of the Republicans.  They wrap themselves in patriotism, and defend liberty.  But, liberty in their definition tends to mean the freedom to do what they please, to take as much profit, and suppress as many social programs as they can.  They throw their RWC groups a bone once in a while, and raise abortion every election, basically exchanging social freedoms for their corporate strategies.

If the Republicans represent liberty, the Democrats represent justice.   This is reigning in the liberties of a few, to support the many.  Here is where we get health care programs, civil rights, unions, etc.  

We need both, we need a balance.

The problem is when the Republicans divide us,  when they cater to narrow issues to divide us, like abortion, or gay rights.  People switch for a narrow issue, and end up loosing the larger part of their rights in exchange for a smaller victory.

We all need to work together, we need to see what's happening.

I know, this is an article about Hillary and Obama supporters, not Republican and Democrats.   But, it sounds like the party is being split once again, Hillary voters and Obama supporters.   If that happens, we will all loose.

I'm an Obama supporter, but I have enjoyed reading the honest feelings toward Hillary.  I once supported Hillary, and a part of me wishes I still could.

I think we can get there. I hope we can.


by Kiku on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That I'm constantly tagged as racist (2.00 / 1)

by people online who presume me to be an ignorant bigot is part of it.


by catfish1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:18:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The word is educated (2.00 / 1)

In some cases, arguably over-educated, such as with a liberal arts degree--we have been taught to argue well and very much else.  In others, you find people whose education is validated by society in the form of respect, even titles (lawyers, doctors).

I imagine having the bulk of these people arrayed against you all at once could be a bit obnoxious.


by leftneck on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am educated (2.00 / 1)

No that's not the word. It's a condescending mindset.

You could be a hedge fund manager with a Harvard degree and be less elitist than a school teacher.

One of the repentant Weather Underground bombers, Mark Rudd, said in his unpublished memoir:

As Mark Rudd, one of the Weathermen founders said in his unpublished memoir:

At that point in our thinking, there were no innocent Americans. At least not among the white ones. All guilty. All Americans were legitimate targets for attack. I cherished my hate as a badge of moral superiority.


by catfish1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am educated (none / 0)

And why did he feel the right to be "condescending"?  Because he felt he knew things other people did--in this case, that our government was so criminal that it had to be resisted with force, if not necessarily violence (a thesis that holds up pretty well in regards to Vietnam, though you'll find no one with the balls to publicly approach it).  The most reliable way of causing someone to think they know better is to put them through a process presented as giving them large amounts of knowledge.  Doesn't mean all educated people will be 'elitist,' just means there's gonna be a correlation.  Of course, the other side of that is that if that process actually does make you learn things that person will be right.  

By they way, everybody does this.  The Clinton camp's main theme for the last month or so, seating Florida and Michigan, was incredibly condescending.  Sure, they broke the rules, HRC bloggers regularly admit, but if we follow through with the predefined punishment, we will lose those states in the general--as if Democrats from Florida and Michigan are children, ready to take their ball home when they are penalized for breaking the rules.  I've lurked lots on both MyDD and pre-'strike' DKos, and I've never seen someone claiming to be a native Michiganite or Floridian angry at anyone but their respective state legislatures.  I'm sure someone will chime in or you'll present something anecdotal, but is there any real evidence for anyone actually being angry about this so-called disenfranchisement?  Seems to me like a lot of presumption on the part of Team Clinton...


by leftneck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:51:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well we know where you stand (none / 0)

He speaks in the past tense. You do not. You equate seating FL and MI with domestic bombing.


by catfish1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:01:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well we know where you stand (none / 0)

That's... not what I did at all?

I suppose this is a bad time to play "but you do it too," though.


by leftneck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well - your diary makes the case (none / 0)

we're becoming a party of this niche, narrow academic set plus AAs

I think this is a result of biased, lazy media and pundits who do not have a basic understanding of the statistics that they analyze night after night. Now we have Clinton supporters believing that Obama supporters are elitist, and Obama supporters believing that Clinton supporters are low info voters.

The biggest problem is the lack of appropriate analysis. I'll just give one example because it would be impossible to really cover this topic in a single comment. The pundits claim that Hillary Clinton's supporters have less education than Obama supporters. Thus, they say, they must be low information voters. They conclude that they don't know as much, don't understand as much, and they imply that they are less savvy than Obama's more educated supporters. This, of course, exacerbates the divides between the two camps. One of the major problems with this conclusion is that they do not take into account the age gap. Most of the Clinton supporters who have less education are older women who did not go to college because the women of their generation were expected not to. These are women who self-educated by reading, joining book clubs, and other self-improvement activities. The pundits' analysis simply does not take into account who has less education and why. When a deeper analysis is considered, it becomes clear that supporters of both camps are equally as knowledgeable and savvy as each other.

That's just one example. There are many, many, many more.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well - your diary makes the case (none / 0)

Very true. I always thought we were the party of the little guy but Obama has shattered that image of the party forever. The Republicans were always talking about how we're elitists etc. The are right on that one for sure. To have a potential nominee who sounds like a college professor constantly trying to lecture the masses about an issue is beyond irritating and plays into the worst stereotypes people have of us.

Forget 2008 if Obama is the nominee IMO. We need to spend the time getting back to our roots ala Truman.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:04:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is the Dem. I've been looking for (none / 0)

because, as Catfish writes, "she fires me up and kicks ass."  I always get so energized when I hear her speak.  Her attention to detail about issues, impresses me more than I've ever experienced in any political candidate.  For me, Obama puts me to sleep when I hear him speak.  He seems to lack knowledge about issues and policies.  Look, as Dems. we have been waiting for someone who is not going to back down from the Rethug. spin machine and Hillary has the chutzpah to stand her ground.  We've been wanting someone to talk back to the MSM---she did that with the "pimping Chelsea" comment.  She genuinely wanted to help out working-class with their gas expenses.  She wanted a quick fix, because there are a lot of people who are genuinely trying to decide between buying a gallon of milk and a gallon of gas right now.  She had the cajones to put something out there that she knew would not be completely popular (but think it got her votes in Indiana)----but it actually worked in Illinois when Obama wanted a gas-tax holiday.  I don't care for Obama's prevarication, he shades the truth about so many things (I don't like that he's in favor of nuclear energy, and Austin Goolsbee is counseling him to considering privatizing Social Security)---ugh!----the bottom line, I get a sick feeling in my stomach when I hear him speak.  And, I'm really not comfortable with his relationship with Ayers, Auchi, Rezko, Wright.  Don't like that he has attacked Bill Clinton, has not defended Hillary when there were so many misogynistic remarks made about another Dem.   He's effectively lied about being "post-racial," (he's not) started using the racist meme about Bill's comments in SC, and turning the AA community for the most part against the Clintons.  My personal observation is that he is the reason the Dem. party is so divided now.  


truthseeker2
by truthseeker2 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:36:56 PM EST

He looks the other way a lot (2.00 / 1)

Yeah when the race stuff was going on he had a real opportunity to step up and LEAD and say "hey, this may get me votes but I don't want votes this way."  His popularity would have soared!

He has a habit of looking the other way with Rezko, with Ayers. I think with Wright he was just confused about his own racial identity and Wright was a father-figure.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:44:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He looks the other way a lot (2.00 / 1)

I don't really want to get into the Ayers or Wright thing because I think that's subjective.

But, I do want to point out that Obama was saying over and over that Hillary was not racist and was not race-baiting. I happen to have a different perception, but Obama was taking up for Clinton throughout the campaign season. I think a couple of things happened here, though. First, the feelings were so strong on this issue that it did not matter what he said, people feel what they feel. Second, the media wanted to stir things up, so they ignored Obama when he took up for Clinton. The only people who saw those remarks were the Obama supporters who really follow all of his speeches and press conferences.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's more Ayers than Wright (2.00 / 1)

It's what bothers me about the left. And how Obama explained it "I was only 8 years old." I don't think Ayers should have a teaching position at an academic institution.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's more Ayers than Wright (2.00 / 2)

That's not really something within Obama's control. Ayers is a well respected member of the neighborhood where Obama lives. He's a well respected employee of Obama's employer. He said on a nonprofit board that does good things for people who need help. Short of quitting his job, refusing to help that nonrprofit, and moving away from his community, I don't see much that Obama could have done about Ayers. He didn't have the ability or authority to fire Ayers, make Ayers move, or kick Ayers off of the Board of Directors.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ayers launched Obama's career (none / 0)

but that could be forgiven - perhaps Obama didn't know much of Ayers' past at the time.

Oddly, I have this strong view because of DIVERSITY TRAINING at work! It went over offices in which soft racism thrive because of the "passive bystander" effect - we're not racist but unless we get up and walk out when somebody tells a racist joke, we're passively condoning it.

Also - Ayers reinforces the "elitism" thing. Especially Obama's defense of why he associates with Ayers "well he's a college professor" - that made it worse for Obama, not better.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ayers launched Obama's career (none / 0)

Obama doesn't associate with Ayers.

Here's an example, there are people here in this group who have done things that you probably wouldn't agree with.  Should you leave the group because of that?

There wouldn't be many places left to go if we all followed that philosophy.

Mark Penn could be used as a prime example.  I can guarantee you that if you look into his past, you will be appalled at the things he has advocated.  Does that mean that you should abandon Hillary?

The association for Obama with Ayers is not something he can do anything about.


by Kiku on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ayers launched Obama's career (none / 0)

The reasoning is not because Ayers is a professor. It's because he is a professor at the same university where Obama is a professor. They are colleagues -- they work together. A person cannot choose their colleagues, and once your boss hires someone, you can't arbitrarily choose not to associate with that person.


by Zoey on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:00:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is the Dem. I've been looking for (none / 0)

So, are you saying he's an imperfect candidate but that you'll still support him in November, or are you dead set against him?


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not dead set, no (2.00 / 1)

If he doesn't ask Hillary I may just leave it blank, or he may earn my vote between now and then. His speech last night was a slight improvement.


by catfish1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not dead set, no (none / 0)

I can see that you have some very strong feelings. I believe you will come around. Why do I believe that? Because you have shown a willingness to engage in civil discussion here in this thread. You are not an unreasonable person -- you're just passionate about your candidate. If Obama was in Clinton's place right now, I think I would be a lot like you.


by Zoey on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:02:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's like sapped morale (2.00 / 1)

Of course I'll force myself to vote for him, but if he doesn't ask Hillary, it will take a lot of effort to check the box.


by catfish1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

super nice.

I seriously wanted Hill to be president, not only cause she's super cool but because,yes a woman. I want a female president and it seems like some people just dont want to see that happen with all their sexism up in everyones faces.

The thing Im trying to work on now is liking Obama, its hard to imagine that I just dont like him. I just dont, and I really dont like Michelle to be honest with you. So my deal now is just trying to accept him, while I like his message I still have trouble with him.


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:06:53 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

I remember when Geraldine Ferraro was running with Mondale.  The sexism then was unmasked.  One Time article I read asked if a mom really do the job.  I stopped reading Time after that, and have never bought a copy since.

We have come a long way since then.  That's not to say there isn't still a long way to go.


by Kiku on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Being a BHO supporter (2.00 / 1)

means never having to say you're sorry. At least that is the impression they give. If you don't march to their drummer you're in the way and the enemy. I will vote dem no matter what but he won't get another dime from me or any other kind of support.


by zerosumgame on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:13:54 PM EST

Re: Being a BHO supporter (2.00 / 1)

I'm truly sorry that is the impression we've given you. It's definitely not how most of us feel.


by Zoey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 3)

I can't find the exact quote, but Bill Clinton said something to the effect of, "I always wanted to vote for a man of color or a woman for President--God, why did you have to give me both in the same year?"

Our tent is not as big as we pretend it is--it's bigger.

It HAS to be.

In this year, with so much at stake, with the ability to not only make gains in the Senate but to approach the magic number of 60, to make substantial gains in the House, all while seating a Democratic President of the United States, we have the opportunity to change the landscape of our country for a generation!

We MUST reach out, Hillary or Obama supporter, and wrap our arms around everyone we know and drag them kicking and screaming into our more than spacious tent.

Hillary Clinton has a grasp on policy that is nearly unmatched in my history following Presidential politics.  I think she has a very clear vision of where the country is and where she wants to take it--and she's not bashful about using the political process to get in a position to affect that vision.

Barack Obama brings in a youthful enthusiasm and an amost wistful "I don't know that it can't be done" mentality that is mindful of JFK.  He's a thoughtful, inspiring candidate who is guilty of sometimes speaking the truth when he should, instead, defer.  Hope is a virtue, not a weakness. Isn't Bill Clinton "the man from Hope?"

Either the black man or white woman would make a fine President; it seems clear that Mr. Obama will be the nominee.  If we can overcome trends like we are seeing coming out of Indiana--that a significant portion of HRC voter's say they will not vote for Obama--there is no reason we can't make the kind of groundsweeping change in DC and the country that we so desperately need.

Big tent?  No, not big.

HUGE!

Now we just have to fill it...

PS Please don't take any of my comments about HRC or BO out of context and see a slight where there is none--I could gush extensively about the positives of both candidates and leaving out something doesn't mean it's not appreciated.


"The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy."
by AK Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:21:10 PM EST

Sufficiently interesting political questions... (2.00 / 3)

lead to polarized groups.

Two strong candidates eliminated the rest in short order and a protracted siege for dominance developed that will continue up to the convention.

One of the major contributing factors to the polarization initially was the fact that the candidates we're too similar on most issues: the "War", Healthcare and economic/tax policy.

Voters were left to decide based upon issues of race, gender and character. Many determined democrats will have a difficult time explaining why they support the one over the other that doesn't sound a bit mystical... it's a gut feeling about the person: a level of trust.

But, we will have a decision and we will then have a new fight to be waged. What I heard from both candidates last night was a change in rhetoric that spoke to unifying the party and indicating support for the parties choice.

We are right on the edge of that decision... it could be exposed by large numbers of super-delegates announcing and letting us run the numbers.

It can be adjusted by announcements from the "Rules Committee" and how that impacts the totals.

But, the end is near. And that end is just the start of the new beginning.

Let's ride out the next few weeks with a new sense of calm because then remaining voters won't settle this. The swing in pledged delegates will only move a handful with each primary ticked off... yesterday caused a shift of 5 delegates I believe.

So, let's start to develop some patience and let the process work it's way thorugh the party and be made perfectly clear to us all that the end is here and the beginning has started.


by mcdtracy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:35:16 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (1.00 / 1)

Don't look now but Obama has burnt the big tent...


by DTaylor on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:39:04 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 2)

We have to beat John McCain.  Yesterday in the news he basically admitted, for the first time, openly, that we are in Iraq for oil. The case is being made and built up to invade Iran, the second largest remaining oil field by the way.

Remember back when even suggesting such things was dismissed by Republicans as "whacky left thinking" and now they are openly claiming it!

He is not only increasing the potential for war, he is openly attempting to defeat the GI Bill.  He is talking about "small government" which has been a theme since the Reagan years which is code for taking away money from the poor and the disabled, or our children.

He voted for a war that was predicted to be a tactical, military, and economic disaster.  
Senator McCain has openly admitted he knows nothing about the economy and would leave that "to experts".  He has a need to "win", even if "winning", by his standards means the destruction of our nation.

His record on education is deplorable.

He condones torture; he believes tax cuts for the wealthy 1@ are beneficial to our nation.  He believes we are "doing better" over the last eight years.  The denial is mind-boggling.

Yes, he was a POW and a hero.  He is steeped in Chain of Command, but he clearly lacks the range of thought and systemic critical thinking that we vitally need.

We cannot afford identity politics right now; we are facing a decision that could result in our own destruction, and that of our planet.


by URKnot on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:43:53 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 1)

What is the time table that Sen. Obama and Sen Clinton would have for moving people out of Iraq. President Bush has anounced troop withdrawals and I don't think he as any intention of pulling out of Iraq during the rest of his term. What is the mechanism used to pull out and what is the time frame.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice post...thanks (2.00 / 1)

Hope we can mend the hard feelings...of course realize we have been called koolaid drinkers, cult followers, dillusional, stupid, and many other things as well...a few bad players on both sides have really fired everyone up to being completely pissed off...heck maybe some of them were Republican spies...right down their alley to do something like that.

Cheers and congrats for the win in Indiana.


by netgui68 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:03:14 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (2.00 / 0)

My first real impression of Obama came last fall with the McClurkin incident. Had heard him speak before and found I could not listen to his revival style of speech. The announcement about McClurkin spread like wildfire. At the great orange satan, diaries went up protesting the appearance. And we were meet by hordes of Obama supporters telling us to STFU. They told us that for AA's, fagbashing is a tenet of their religion. Then they launched into assualts on gay people in general. And many of us in particular.

This gave me a very poor impression of Obama. His campaign continued to ignore the gay community and refused to speak to the gay press. No prominent or even marginally well known gays or lesbians were on his staff. His supporters have tried every now and then to stir up gay support. And don't seem to have been very successful.

Hillary has been a long time friend of our community with many, many public lesbian and gay associates. Obama has none. Which Obama supporters have told me means I am 'strange', 'crazy' and so on. So, I will stick with her until she decides to quit. Then I will either write her in come November or vote minor party. Obama's hope may be that her supporters write her in rather than vote McCain.

The least little whiff of homophobia is a deal breaker for me. From my perspective there is no difference between the AA church and the Church of Jesus Christ Aryan: both are hate groups and should be condemned. Your diary is a nice try, but I am not buying.


by DaleA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:03:53 PM EST

Re: Our Tent is Not as Big as We Pretend It Is (none / 0)

Certainly isn't that big. Obama's campaign has said that they don't want the votes of anyone other than AA's, creative class and people under 30. I guess that leaves a lot of people to sit home or vote for McCain doesn't it?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:56:00 AM EST


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